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John Bogle, 79, is the Founder of The Vanguard Group, Inc., and President of Vanguard’s Bogle Financial Markets Research Center. He created Vanguard in 1974 and served as Chairman and CEO until 1996 and Senior Chairman until 2000. He has been named by Time magazine as one of the world’s 100 most powerful and influential people. He is the author of seven books, including his most recent, Enough. True Measures of Money, Business and Life. In Enough., Mr. Bogle reflects on the excesses that mark so many segments of our society today, and considers just what “enough” means in money, business, and life. It is available via the link from Amazon above.
We interviewed Mr. Bogle on December 19, 2008.
You are critical of executive compensation based on stock options, arguing that it encourages speculation (“renting stocks” and holding them for the short term) rather than investing (holding stocks for the long term). How will your solution — basing pay on growth in earnings, cash flow, or dividends — be an improvement? Aren’t those just as easy to manipulate?
The fact of the matter is that it is exceptionally difficult to manipulate cash flow or dividends. Companies can overpay dividends, but they must get their Boards of Directors to approve those payments. And paying higher dividends than is economically rational is a very costly thing for a company to do.
Earnings can be manipulated, but they are audited and can be looked at critically by investors. Of course, they can be restated, and I would recommend that Boards of Directors use clawback provisions in executive compensation agreements to recapture any bonuses that were paid on earnings that were subsequently restated.
The problem is that the use of options encourages corporate managers to focus on their firm’s stock price in the short-term, which often has little to do with the firm’s long-term economic growth. You don’t have to look very hard to find many examples of companies that were managed for the short-term, whose managers took on tremendous risk in pursuit of short-term gains. The managers were enormously compensated based on those gains, and then long gone when that risk came home to roost. In the long run, 100% of investor returns come from dividend and earnings growth. Volatility in the stock market adds nothing. The stock market is a giant distraction from the business of investing.
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